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forming a fascia sign. i need some help here please

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Post Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:03 pm

forming a fascia sign. i need some help here please

ok i have hit a small snag that i need some help on...
below is a dodgy knock up of what i need...
its an alluminium sign about 30 ft long. built in sections.
its rolled like i have shown. but! there is translucent perspex letters to be inserted into it to allow the letters to be illuminated from the inside.....

my problem is this...

i can get the panel router cut easily... so im left with a panel with all the letters cut out...

i can get the sheet rolled to the shape i need easily...but without the letters cut out...

the people that roll the sheets say if the letters are cut out before they roll it. it will cause problems forming the exact shape consistantly.

so what do i do... the router won't cut the letters if i roll it first and the rollers wont roll if i router first...

i thought about getting it lazer cut once its rolled but is this possible...?

i know theres probably an easy solution im not thinking about but, this has me stumped. im running out of time on it and it may be worth 40 shop fronts if i can get it done and done right & at the right cost.... :roll:

any help appreciated
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Post Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:12 pm

Just an Idea Rob - can you make the entire curved (rolled) section from clear acrylic - then apply over the top of the acrylic a vinyl mask with the lettering cut out to give the appearance of a metal sign with acrylic letters ?
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Post Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:52 pm

thanks phill...
the problem here is... i cant give an alternative. its one of these architect drawn designs...

the letters actualy have to sit proud of the face so that the edges of the letters have a white glow all round....

cheers anyway mate :wink:
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Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 12:00 am

Whilst this is not at all my field - I suspect it's a case of 'silly ideas too please'... :P

I would imagine the problem is two-fold - first, by rolling and curving a plate with letters cut out, the actual original shape of each letter will then change and any perspex letter that would have fitted the cut-outs when the plate was flat will no longer fit when it's curved :-? .

That aside, I was thinking about how you can avoid crabby drill holes in metal signs by clamping another waste plate front and back and drilling through all three. How about employing 'waste plates' to sandwich the plate as it's rolled to ensure the whole thing curves evenly...I suppose these waste plates would have to be straightened each time - perhaps by rolling them through the other way?....who knows...I don't! :roll:

more soon
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Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 1:08 am

mike:

two things:
by rolling and curving a plate with letters cut out, the actual original shape of each letter will then change and any perspex letter that would have fitted the cut-outs when the plate was flat will no longer fit when it's curved

correct... i had thought of that but shouldnt be a problem... the hight will drop slightly due to the curve but i should be able to make the letters the right size on screen to fit ok... so that ones not to much a problem...

That aside, I was thinking about how you can avoid crabby drill holes in metal signs by clamping another waste plate front and back and drilling through all three. How about employing 'waste plates' to sandwich the plate as it's rolled to ensure the whole thing curves evenly...I suppose these waste plates would have to be straightened each time - perhaps by rolling them through the other way?....who knows...I don't!


now that is a possiblity if i dont have any other options... in theory i dont see why it would not work. bonding them together with VHB tape... who knows ill see if we get anyone else witha solution
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Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 1:42 am

Could the back of each letter be shaped to sit on the curve and then holes drilled through from the back to let light show through each one? (:) (<(
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Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:41 am

Robert,

Any dimensions to go along with your drawing? Having played with projects like this in the past was always fun; after they were finished that is!!

Depending on the dimensions, it may not be a big deal (in my opinion anyway). Fill in some details like character height, radius, thickness of Aluminum, thickness of Perspex. Any requirement on how much of a return needs to be visible, either at the “center” or at the base/top of letter? Give some specs and I’ll toss back some detailed drawings an ideas.

Although not related directly to your current “problem”, curious what the distance will be from the bulb to back of the Perspex letters?
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Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 6:22 am

My Two Cent

Cant You Rollit Then Clamp Down The Ends Of The Metal Back Wards So it loks like an U Then Routed Backwards?
I
V
I_I
or theres not enough clearance?
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Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 9:38 am

I would sub the fabrication out to a company called
GRAPHEX
0191 460 6423
I use them for all my tricky fabrication they build the whole unit with halo
finish perspex lettering / lighting and alloy rolled section just put it up
good prices as well and first class service ring for a brochure (more like a book with good pictures and illustrations)
http://www.graphex.co.uk

Adrian
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Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 12:18 pm

thanks for all the replies guys...

martin
im afraid it would not work mate... would probably take up as much time trying to get it the exact same radious as face panel...not enough light would come through to give a good halo.. cheers martin

oreo...
good to see you back mate. hope alls well. :wink:
your method may work. but the radious would prove to much to keep totaly secure for routering. not to mention actualy getting it to lay truely square with the router bed... thanks none the less

bob
Although not related directly to your current “problem”, curious what the distance will be from the bulb to back of the Perspex letters?

the bulbs will be about 250mm from the perspex bob... they will be fiitted to a folded alloy tray with one inch returns.. the face will have 1 inch returns also so it can be inserted to tray and fixed

the radious of the face should be from "0" & will raise to 300mm in the middle. the material is 2mm alluminium sheet.
the letters have to sit proud at the top and bottom of the letter 50mm from the face of sign.
now when i think on it that means it wil have to be a fabricated letter.. :roll:
the face of the letter will be a vinyl or alluminium. im looking at print again here and it saying silver face but doesnt spec.....
the lengh of the sign will vary.. i think it will be done in 8 foot sections and is 1050 deep with tongue and groove type joins

adrian.
your right it would be better to sub it to graphex.. but with there being so many fascia in various parts of the country it would mean little space for error when fitting the jobs...
what i mean is if there is a problem or somthing isnt just right we can alter easily to suit on site...
we can however fabricate the lot with exception of the rolling... hense the problem im having. so it may be a much more exspensive way... but still a good one. i think i will give them a call and see what kind of money they are talking... :wink:
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Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:58 pm

Just ignore me as I am only a beginner, but Mike had an idea of using a second plate to ensure the curve was consistant. These plates would not need to be straightened each time as they could be used as a former, you would then only need one plate at the maximum length of a panel as long as the depth of each facia was consistant.
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Post Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:42 am

Rob

AMAZING that youre doing a sign just like the one i have finished, only a few days later. let me digest fully get you some pics and then ill talk you through it, its not difficult at all

PD
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Post Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:50 am

brill paul
cant waite to see it.. even if you dont get the piccies.. please reply with a brief on what i should do mate......... :wink:


oh and your demo will be loaded over next couple of days...

lets hope i get this new one quicker :o :o :o :o

kidding, kidding , kidding :wink:
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Post Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:53 am

Rob

I need some dimensions from you on this ie curve radius, sign height , length (basically let me see the whole thing you are trying to do)

Are you wanting built up letters poking through or would you be ok with a simple push through flat cut letter and to finish off if youre giving graphex a go at pricing for them, can i have a shot, we can curve aluminium sheet up to 3m in length, guillotene up to 3m and as you know sort the acrylics out as well
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Post Thu Nov 21, 2002 1:01 am

paul there is rough dimensions in my post above... to begin with
i thought i would be using flat cut 10mm clear flame polished letters with alloy face but reading the spec im not sure that will be deep enough.. infact im sure it wont... so built returns looks on the cards...

sure i will give you a go at quoting for it...

the exact sizes are on a print back in my work ill need to check them..
its the usual architect crap... they state what they want then say or near as, if its possible.. the dimensions etcs we are given dont really work... but ill go with them as they call the shots... and pay the bill... :wink:
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Post Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:47 pm

Robert

Did you ever manage to sort this project out.

Andy
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Post Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:19 am

hi andy

yes i have mate... what i decided to do was to sub the work out to SR Signs in England. the guy in charge there is paul davenport of this site!
you will find his name near the begining of the members list.
the job actualy hit a snag in the form of some details given to us by the customer. but that should be sorted soon & all is well at our end.
we won the job and getting the contract for the whole of scotland and maybe england is on the cards.. ill keep you posted! :wink:
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Post Fri Jan 31, 2003 11:40 pm

Hi Guys

Only just seen this post nice to see your sorted I have got an idea but its hard to explain
must learn to post piccys

till the next time...................FB
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Post Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:28 pm

Wheres the pictures?????????????

Nice to see other peoples work
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Post Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:16 am

Hey! this nearly blew my mind out :o :o :o (<(

Tried to follow along - got lost in the maze :( :(

For some of you this seems to be a doddle :)

It would be great to see a demo sometime in the future Rob :D

John
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Post Fri Mar 21, 2003 9:41 pm

Dont send it yet Rob, im right in the middle of the Fraser eagle job !!!!!!!!!
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Post Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:40 am

formed Ali Panels/Push Thru Letters

I used to work for one of the "majors" (not John you understand) who used to regularly produce curved ali panels for most of the famous BS's and Banks on the high St. - Always lazer cut. But hey, If you'v a few bob to spend on one........

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