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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:17 pm

Unusual request

Have been asked by a good customer how to go about embedding an object in a resin/perspex like box, a bit similar to what Damien Hirst did with the cow, but smaller. Was wondering if any of you have tried this and where to start looking for supplies. Any advice welcome...thanks
Harry
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:19 pm

you've got an AFW job?
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:24 pm

Marcella wrote:you've got an AFW job?



WHATS THAT? :D
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:46 pm

I'm sure there is an old post about this, try doing a search.


Nick.
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:57 pm

harry, if its not quite as big as a cow , hobby shops usually stock kits for this type of thing

or look here

http://www.craftmaterialsupplies.co.uk/ ... in_16.html

Peter
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:59 pm

Marcella wrote:you've got an AFW job?


When he asked me, the first thing came in to my head was Marcella and Andrew!! :D :D

Its too near teatime to tell you what he wants to embed!!! Lets just say he'll be handling them himself!...lol

Thanks Nick, I'll try that. What to search under though?
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:19 pm

INTERESTING LINK THAT PETER, THANK YOU!
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:21 pm

Thanks Peter that looks like the stuff, would be interested to hear from anyone who has tried this, do and don't. I only have one chance with the 'Artefacts'!! :D :D

P.S. Why is Rob shouting? you going deaf Peter? :D
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:25 pm

Robert Lambie wrote:INTERESTING LINK THAT PETER, THANK YOU!


what are you shouting about today?
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:30 pm

Harry - it's not an 'organic material' is it? Pet hamster? Prize winning goldfish?

Depending on what it is, it might have to be 'fixed' to prevent degradation.

It's one thing to encase something in acrylic...quite another to preserve it!
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:39 pm

What you are looking for is a clear casting resin, like the link that was supplied to you by Peter.
Depending on the size of the object. For larger quantities I have used a supplier in Middleton (who's name escapes me.... but I can look it up). It's about 7 euro's a litre and you need to mix with a catalyst to make it set.
Mix .5 to 2 % catalyst (depending on quantity). MIX VERY WELL!
Less catalyst is better: less shrinkage, but takes longer to set.
You can make a mould out of anything, or use a container you can cut.
Use vaseline or beeswax as a release agent.
If the finish isn't perfect, you can sand with waterproof sandpaper and pollish with brasso, or t-cut (or toothpaste if you are stuck).
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:47 pm

Harry,

there is a company in Cork (GRS) that are agents for Smooth-On, they have a wide range of casting & molding materials. They might not have them in Cork but can order them in.

http://grs.ie/

Speak to Jill or Peter, they are very helpful.
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:48 pm

Marcella wrote:
Robert Lambie wrote:INTERESTING LINK THAT PETER, THANK YOU!


what are you shouting about today?


:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: your on the noise-up marcy... thats two posts now your having a go at me :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: back off, i know not to tackle you. :wink: :P

Angelique, thank you for the tips... i have been considering buying this for some time but never got round to searching so peters link will allow me to do it now. i have something made when i was about 5 or 6 years old. it was a large stone/pebble i painted by hand for my gran with some writing on it, i gave her it for her birthday and when she died about 20 years later she still had it in her display cabinet so it would be good to preserve it as it is because its age the paint is beginning to flake off.
on that, do you think the paint will react with the resin and spoil it?
just now i have it in a clear acrylic box but the resin would be great to keep it safe.
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:49 pm

p.s. I don't know much about making signs, but I do have a fair bit of experience with casting/resins/grp. etc. So I am happy to help with advice were I can. However, some more information about the item in question would be helpfull.
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:55 pm

Robert Lambie wrote:
:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: back off, i know not to tackle you. :wink: :P




:lol1: ........ I know what you're on about! LOL
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:59 pm

Robert Lambie wrote:
Marcella wrote:
Robert Lambie wrote:INTERESTING LINK THAT PETER, THANK YOU!


what are you shouting about today?


:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: your on the noise-up marcy... thats two posts now your having a go at me :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: back off, i know not to tackle you. :wink: :P

Angelique, thank you for the tips... i have been considering buying this for some time but never got round to searching so peters link will allow me to do it now. i have something made when i was about 5 or 6 years old. it was a large stone/pebble i painted by hand for my gran with some writing on it, i gave her it for her birthday and when she died about 20 years later she still had it in her display cabinet so it would be good to preserve it as it is because its age the paint is beginning to flake off.
on that, do you think the paint will react with the resin and spoil it?
just now i have it in a clear acrylic box but the resin would be great to keep it safe.




Ooh, scary now, having to give advice.. What if I am wrong?!?
Well, I would say, that the paint is pretty safe. As long as you don't start 'messing' in the resin once it has been poored. What I would probably do is:
take a container and mix a small quantity of resin. Poor this, to make a 'base' (unless you want the stone on the bottom of the block).
Wait till this is hardening (can be between 15 minutes or an hour depending on how much catalyst, exterior temperature etc.)
Before it completely sets (so it is still sticky) you put in the stone. Then mix up some more resin and poor on top. This way, the stone will 'float' in the block.
If you haven't used resin before it is a good idea to to a test-piece. This way you get an idea of the properties. It is quite tricky to work with as there are many factor influencing the end result.
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:12 pm

Hi Angelique, the Scots are arguing again, you get used to it!!! :D
Right, I hope you are sitting down.............this guy is involved with Damien Hirst in a project in August and wants to present him with these.
What he intends encasing is two .....err........rats.....yes I just said that, seemingly it a joke!!! :o :o

you did ask Angelique! :D :D
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:18 pm

You will need to mumify them first, I would say,


Peter
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:20 pm

They are mummified Peter.........somehow that sounds worse!!!Customers! :D
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:25 pm

Harry,
dont ask me how I know this, but to encase a furry animal is problematic, mainly due to air bubbles emanating from the fur after you cover the little sod in resin..

I cant advise on how to avoid this.....

Peter
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:46 pm

what kind of weirdos do you hang around with Harry ? :o
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:00 pm

Marcella don't worry about Harry worry about the fella that stuffed the rats :yikes:
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 pm

foamcutter wrote:Marcella don't worry about Harry worry about the fella that stuffed the rats :yikes:



thats who Im worrying about as well!! 'I have them in the car', he says!!! 'Thats nice for you', says I!!!!! :vomit:

Weirdo's make life interesting Marcella!! :D :D
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:19 pm

Peter Normington wrote:Harry,
dont ask me how I know this, but to encase a furry animal is problematic, mainly due to air bubbles emanating from the fur after you cover the little sod in resin..

I cant advise on how to avoid this.....

Peter


Shave them first? :o

Peter
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:27 pm

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: oh Peter, you are one sick puppy!
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:31 pm

Peter Mindham wrote:
Shave them first? :o

Peter


:vomit:
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:37 pm

Ive been told heat is an issue due to the chemical reaction with some resins, so take that into account when moulding rats
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:21 pm

As far as I know Damien Hirst had his horses/sharks etc. in glass cases filled with formaldehyde!
So nothing to do with resin.

I would say that if there is any moisture left in the rats it will eventually start rotting. Not very pleasant.
What's the purpose of the present. If he just wants to be funny, I am sure you will get a couple of weeks out of them cast in resin (try and get a very watery thin version: less trouble with airbubbles
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:32 pm

Thanks Angelique, I think it is a joke, I will check, when you say 'watery' is that how you mix it, or buy it? And is it the stuff on Peter's link?
Thanks
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:42 pm

Harry,
you could always try something original



just do a wrap on the rats




Peter
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:45 pm

Harry,
To be honest: I have never bought the small 'hobby' quantities like on peter's website. The place I used to work bought it in big 25 litre containers. I know there are at least two thicknesses available. One thinner than the other (so you buy it that way).
The thinner version is just a bit thicker than water, and any air that get's trapped is easier to remove.
With regard to my earlier advice: on the container will tell you how tell you how to mix it correctly. It is possible that the catalyst is less strong than the stuff I used to work with so my suggested quantities might be wrong. Mixing properly is VERY important. Otherwise it might not cure properly and stay sticky forever. Never but in more catalyst than suggested as the resin won't absorb it. Heat is a big factor in casting, but with the small items (rats) that you are talking about it should not be a problem..
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:47 pm

Peter Normington wrote:Harry,
you could always try something original



just do a wrap on the rats




Peter


Yeah, good idea: do a 'Cristo'!
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:01 pm

Marcella wrote:........ I know what you're on about! LOL



:wink: :lol1:


Angelique, thanks very much for taking the time to reply... ill give it a go but ill try a tester first like you advised, probably the best way really.
the paint on the stone looks like a sort of poster paint and is deteriorating with age. i just didnt know that because its water based would it react and spoil, but again, i guess i could do a small tester on it on the back.

thanks again!
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:10 pm

Peter Normington wrote:Harry,
you could always try something original



just do a wrap on the rats




Peter


:D :D :D
Damien Hirst and Christo!!!!! Im just a signmaker :D :D
Thanks for the detailed info Angelique, Im the best informed Rat encaser in the north!! :D :D
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:21 pm

So go on Harry are you going to do the job or not?....... :yes1: :no1:

Nice one for the portfolio (?)
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:31 pm

foamcutter wrote:So go on Harry are you going to do the job or not?....... :yes1: :no1:

Nice one for the portfolio (?)


You busy Fran?....wanna quote? :D :D



I'll give it a go, but I will need very long tongs!!!!

That's tongs Marcella, before you start!!! No h!!! :D :D
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:34 pm

Robert Lambie wrote:
Marcella wrote:........ I know what you're on about! LOL



:wink: :lol1:


Angelique, thanks very much for taking the time to reply... ill give it a go but ill try a tester first like you advised, probably the best way really.
the paint on the stone looks like a sort of poster paint and is deteriorating with age. i just didnt know that because its water based would it react and spoil, but again, i guess i could do a small tester on it on the back.

thanks again!


Testing is always a good idea. What is stopping you putting some posterpaint on a pebble and casting that? I have never experienced problems with paints dissolving, but they were usually solvent rather than waterbased. I still don't think the resin will dissolve it, unless you scratch the surface whilst it is immersed in the uncured resin. Again, trial and error is a good way to find out.
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Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:51 pm

...wanna quote?


No thanks, I think I smell a rat.
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Post Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:15 am

foamcutter wrote:
...wanna quote?


No thanks, I think I smell a rat.


:D :D :D chicken!!!!
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Post Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:32 am

No definitely a rat.
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Post Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:40 am

:D :D :D that's cat!!!! :D
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Post Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:57 pm

Guys and Gals,

In FESPA last month i caught a flight back and sat next to a fellow that does just what you are looking for , even said people do sometimes want their pets encased , try Brian johnston of Midton acrylics in Argyll 01546 602182 , its what they do, and they manufacture their own acrylic.

Regards

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