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do you have a licence?

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Marcella Ross

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:52 am

do you have a licence?

Out of curiosity ............... how many of you have a separate licence to allow you to play radio/music within your commercial premises? :D
I've just had a call from the Performing Arts something or other asking if I had one? Fortunately it doesn't apply here as my office is within my home.
But does ANYONE have one? Or are all of you breaking the law :wink:
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Shane Drew

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:02 pm

you need a license here to play music to entertain clients whether you are working from home or a commercial premises.

I play old music thru my phone on hold system (dean martin etc) that are past the 25 year copyright laws, but I'm not sure that it would protect me if I get a visit from the royalty police.

They target hairdressers and trendy shops here, you'd only get caught if you were unlucky enough to put one of the inspectors on hold wanting a sign.

That said, we don't have TV licenses here anymore either, so I think most people are a bit confused as to the extent of the requirements for that sort of thing.

Rather long answer I know. Probably quicker just to say 'no' :oops:
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John Childs

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:01 pm

Interesting question. We don't have a licence.

The lads have a radio going in the fitting bay but surely the BBC takes care of the licence fee for that.

If we were playing music to customers, like in a pub or shop, I could understand the need, but do we need one in our situation?
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Marcella Ross

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:31 pm

as far as I believe John, the bbc licence does not cover music within commercial premises.
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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:37 pm

i dont have one...but do i need one, i only play cd's :-?

nik
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Marcella Ross

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:41 pm

I think to be honest it's a bit of a grey area ...............
it's legal requirement to play 'sound recordings' in public, including business premises. I suppose if you were playing music in areas where customers would be then you would require a licence.
You also are not allowed to play music at your works christmas party if you don't have a licence! :o

Shocking!!!!!



I'll just sing you all a tune instead then, shall I? (-music)
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John Childs

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:42 pm

Marcella wrote:as far as I believe John, the bbc licence does not cover music within commercial premises.

Oh well, better not rattle their cage then.

I'm sure Madonna and Robbie Williams can manage without a contribution from us.
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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:56 pm

Marcella wrote:I'll just sing you all a tune instead then, shall I? (-music)


ermmm......maybe not a good idea :wink:

(ps. lorraine can give u singing lessons...she does a good bassey so im told) :lol1:


nik
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Phill Fenton

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:29 pm

It's another scam Marcella.

Just tell them you don't play music if you get a phonecall like this. :roll:

(They used to send out letters a while back - which just got ignored as well) :lol1:
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Marcella Ross

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:36 pm

no scam Phill - check it out on the web, there's masses of info on when and where you need a licence. Domestic premises seems to be the only place you're allowed to play without a licence!!!!!
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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:44 pm

Nicola Rowlands wrote:

(ps. lorraine can give u singing lessons...she does a good bassey so im told) :lol1:


nik


Aw shucks Nik, making me blush!! :oops:

You did give me an idea (-) though, we're having a fancy dress party again on New Years Eve, theme of James Bond (2-007), so I'm going as Shirley!
Just need to find a bling dress and bling bling jewellery!
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Shane Drew

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm

Nicola Rowlands wrote:i dont have one...but do i need one, i only play cd's :-?

nik


yes nik, you do. The fee goes toward paying the starving artist for entertaining you and your clients. Madonna must be down to her last million, can't have her starving can we :-?

and if you've made your own copies.... the file will be in the chocolate cake :wink:
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simon lucking

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:20 pm

You are right its The Performing Rights Society, they work it out on the square footage of your premises and charge accordingly, ie upto 90sq metres is £100 plus vat etc, and its for background music in all premises where the public may go, cd and radio etc, TOTAL liberty if you ask me :evil:
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Phill Fenton

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:55 pm

In that case I'm gonna form the "Signmakers Society" which will be charging all businesses a royalty fee if they display any signs on their premises that can be seen by the public. The monies raised will be re-distributed to all signmakers in much the same way as I imagine the performing arts society re-distribute all their money to all performers. :P
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Phill Fenton

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:01 pm

Just because someones got a website doesn't make them legit.

I just goggled "the performing arts society" and there are literarly dozens of different organisations all calling themselves "the performing arts society".
:o
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John Childs

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:08 pm

Phill,


Try googling the Performing Rights Society. http://www.prs.co.uk

They are legit and have the job of collecting all the royalties and then divvying it up amongst the performers.

They're just like the TV Licensing boys, only with much less sense of humour.
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simon lucking

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:21 pm

Try www.prs.co.uk/musiclicence or ring 0845 309 3090, you may wonder how i know all this.....its because i am looking at one of their bills on my desk right now, believe me they are legit and do not like to accused of being a con (:)
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Marcella Ross

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:30 pm

Phill, you've got my backing! :D Just think of the royalties us signmakers could earn! :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:
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Phill Fenton

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:29 pm

I have decided to declare my business premises are now an independant nation. I have also decreed that this independant nation does not recognise the Performing rights society as a legitimate entity and as such will not be paying any of their bills.

Taking this one step further - I will also no longer be paying any taxes to the goverment of the United Kingdom :-?
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Nicola McIntosh

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:40 pm

Lorraine Clinch wrote:Just need to find a bling dress and bling bling jewellery!


im sure marcella will be able to help you out with those....thats her glam-up gear for the weekend .... :rofl: :rofl:

nik
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Marcella Ross

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:52 pm

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1:


better than your pvc weekend gear :wink:
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John Childs

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:17 pm

Wot. No leather? :(
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Marcella Ross

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:36 pm

only her underwear John :o
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Nicola McIntosh

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:54 pm

Marcella wrote:only her underwear John :o


:rofl: :rofl: at least i dont wear crotchless panties and nippleless bras :wink:



nik
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Marcella Ross

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:07 pm

John doesn't wear those does he???????????? :o
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John Childs

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:21 pm

No Marcella. Sorry to disappoint.

I find they're far to irritating on my sensitive skin. (oogle)

I'm beginning to look forward to SignUK 2007 though. Come on Shane. Nik and Marcie in leather underwear! That's got to be worthy the price of an air fare.! :D
Last edited by John Childs on Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Marcella Ross

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:24 pm

John Childs wrote:No Marcella. Sorry to disappoint.

I find they're far to irritating on my sensitive skin. (oogle)


well .......... just go commando :wink:
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John Childs

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:27 pm

Marcella wrote:well .......... just go commando :wink:


I would, but I don't know what tartan, if any, I am qualified to wear. You sort that and I'll do it.
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Nicola McIntosh

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Post Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:12 pm

John Childs wrote:I'm beginning to look forward to SignUK 2007 though. Come on Shane. Nik and Marcie in leather underwear! That's got to be worthy the price of an air fare.! :D



MADGE.....look what youve started........... (bully)

nik
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Shane Drew

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Post Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:12 am

John Childs wrote: Come on Shane. Nik and Marcie in leather underwear! That's got to be worthy the price of an air fare.! :D


I don't think so Mr Childs :-?

Cathy (shanes wife)
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Nicola McIntosh

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Post Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:38 am

Shane Drew wrote:
John Childs wrote: Come on Shane. Nik and Marcie in leather underwear! That's got to be worthy the price of an air fare.! :D


I don't think so Mr Childs :-?

Cathy (shanes wife)


it was only a joke............ :wink:


nik
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Lynn Normington

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Post Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:40 am

Cathy you should have your own account too would love to speak more with you to get the proper aspect of whats going on :D and by the way Cathy hello after all this time :cool:


Lynn xxxx
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Shane Drew

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Post Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:00 am

Nicola Rowlands wrote:
Shane Drew wrote:
John Childs wrote: Come on Shane. Nik and Marcie in leather underwear! That's got to be worthy the price of an air fare.! :D


I don't think so Mr Childs :-?

Cathy (shanes wife)


it was only a joke............ :wink:


nik


She was laughing on the inside nik :lol1:

Lynn... Not a chance... I wouldn't get a word in at all then :P
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Lynn Normington

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Post Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:07 am

have you not got two computors Shane ? give Cathy her voice :P


Lynn
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John Childs

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Post Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:27 am

Hiya Cathy. Nice to hear from you.

:welcome:




Am I in the doghouse? :(
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Shane Drew

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Post Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:27 am

Am I in the doghouse? :([/quote]

no more than me most days John. :-?

She reckons you lot are a great bunch of people, but I set her straight on that :lol1:

Lynn, I don't have an issue with Cathy joining, but in truth, she is always catching up at night with legislation or industry requirements in her capacity of Workplace Officer at her work. So although she is on the computer most nights, its usually work related and has little time for my 'indulgences'.

She relaxes watching TV, I relax giving you guys a hard time.

I'll certainly ask her, usually she's happy to read over my shoulder though.
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Jim McManus

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Post Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:14 pm

Going back to the licence, I know from bitter experience as soon as you go "legit" with the PRS and pay them their money, you are guaranteed to get a call from the other bandits, PPL. You do also need a Public Performance Licence. A Double Dunter!!!
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Marcella Ross

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Post Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:41 pm

another rip off in other words!!!!!! :-?
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Post Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:42 pm

Ok this may be a bit contencious and some may say you are hypocrits. why should you think it ok to nik someones music, but be the first to complain if your design was copied?

go on then, ...justify why you should be able to play copyright music foc in your work place.....

I dont care either way cos it dosnt apply to me... I just sing to myself...

Peter
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Phill Fenton

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Post Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:49 pm

Cos copyright music is played foc on the radio al the time :wink:

If it's something that people like they get their own copy.

These artists should be paying us for promoting their products :-?
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Nicola McIntosh

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Post Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:57 pm

ok peter...you tell me what should i play if i cant play what i want to play :D


nik
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John Childs

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Post Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:57 pm

Phill wrote:Cos copyright music is played foc on the radio al the time :wink:


Not really Phill. The BBC and all broadcasters have to pay the PRS the licence fee.

Peter's right.
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Post Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:59 pm

Phill
its not foc
the radio station pay to broadcast music, bbc pay for the music out of your lisence, commercial stations with revenue from the adds.
So if you print out a design for a client to use, can he/she reproduce it free of charge for all and sundry?

so you are saying there is no intelectual/ copyrite issues with music. and it should all be public domain?

Peter
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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:02 am

Nicola Rowlands wrote:ok peter...you tell me what should i play if i cant play what i want to play :D


nik


play what you want nik, but if you play it to an audience...


Peter
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Nicola McIntosh

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:06 am

im ok then peter...i just play it to me, i have too turn it off...its so loud customers would get a fright :wink:


nik
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Marcella Ross

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:08 am

Nicola Rowlands wrote:im ok then peter...i just play it to me, i have too turn it off...its so loud customers would get a fright :wink:


nik


mmmm............ I came home a week past friday with perforated ear drums after working in her sign shop!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Nicola McIntosh

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:17 am

Marcella wrote:mmmm............ I came home a week past friday with perforated ear drums after working in her sign shop!!!!!!!!!!!!


WHAT...........DIDNT QUITE CATCH THAT :lol1: :lol1:

nik
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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:27 am

Nicola Rowlands wrote:
Marcella wrote:mmmm............ I came home a week past friday with perforated ear drums after working in her sign shop!!!!!!!!!!!!


WHAT...........DIDNT QUITE CATCH THAT :lol1: :lol1:

nik


Sorry nik, I didnt hear that, music was to loud.... can you repeat please






Peter
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Phill Fenton

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:30 am

John Childs wrote:
Phill wrote:Cos copyright music is played foc on the radio al the time :wink:


Not really Phill. The BBC and all broadcasters have to pay the PRS the licence fee.

Peter's right.


Peter Normington wrote:Phill
its not foc
the radio station pay to broadcast music, bbc pay for the music out of your lisence, commercial stations with revenue from the adds.
So if you print out a design for a client to use, can he/she reproduce it free of charge for all and sundry?

so you are saying there is no intelectual/ copyrite issues with music. and it should all be public domain?

Peter


OK :o

You've got me guys

I surrender :oops:
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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:33 am

Glad you gave up quietly Phill.


I always surrender so I can fight another day :D

Peter
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Phill Fenton

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:36 am

I'm still not paying the b@stards though :o
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Nicola McIntosh

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:40 am

Peter Normington wrote:I dont care either way cos it dosnt apply to me... I just sing to myself...



yeh right ok.........caught yeh......getting some sounds together there peter? :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:
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tut tut peter !!!!.jpg
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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:45 am

whos the old looking geezer in the pic nik?


Peter
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Nicola McIntosh

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:50 am

Peter Normington wrote:whos the old looking geezer in the pic nik?



some dj i met down in luton.......... :rofl: :rofl:


nik
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Lynn Normington

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:53 am

(-music) (-music) :help:


Lynn
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Nicola McIntosh

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:09 am

Lynn wrote:(-music) (-music) :help:


auww is he not a good singer then lynn :lol1: :lol1:


nik
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Andy Gorman

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:00 am

Mental. Someone hearing the radio playing is hardly the same as them nicking your design for a sign. If the BBC are paying a fee, why should everyone down the line also pay a fee for subsequent hearings. Peter is wrong, I am right. What next, pay Paul McCartney ten squids every time I whistle along to "A Day In The Life"? Again, mental.

Whenever you hear the word "Licence", it really means "TAX".
While we're on the subject, what do we think of the BBC. When the old analogue signal ceases next year, are they going to give us the option of not having their channels? I don't want BBC, so I shouldn't pay.
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John Childs

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:17 am

Well, it could have one positive outcome.

They should enforce payment of royalties on all those youngsters in souped up old Vauxhall Novas who drive around here "sharing" their music. A million pounds a year sounds about right. :D


Andy, I agree about the BBC, sort of. It would be lovely to see all those luvvies forced to earn their keep in the cold hard world of reality. On the other hand it is nice to have some channels without constant interruptions for ads.
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Andy Gorman

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:42 am

Yes, I was just making the point about lack of choice. I would keep the BBC if they made it a subscription service. However, thinking about it I should imagine it's an almost impossible task. I can't see how you can make radio a subscription service, for example.

As for boy racers, it's all just boom boom boom these days. Call that proper music? Not like when I was a lad.

Am I that old? :-?
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John Childs

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:54 am

Andy Gorman wrote:Am I that old? :-?


I don't know Andy, but it sounds like it! :D
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Marcella Ross

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:54 am

Mmm ...... I'd happily give up the BBC and not pay their fee. I don't even listen to BBC radio either ........ so why do I have to pay my licence???? Subscription would be the answer, let us all choose. But you're right Andy, it's a tax so they'll never change it.

As for you being 'that old' ................ naw!!!!!!! I can't say you're old ..... I think you're younger than me so that makes you a spring chicken! :wink: :D
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Shane Drew

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:51 am

Peter Normington wrote:Ok this may be a bit contencious and some may say you are hypocrits. why should you think it ok to nik someones music, but be the first to complain if your design was copied?



My thought is that if I was copying the music, and making money ie reproducing it for sale, or singing their songs for money, then they have an argument.

But, I originally purchase the CD for personal use, then why can't I play it to friends. I'm actually promoting their music for free.

If someone copies my artwork, and gives it to another sign person to reproducem then that is akin to copying a CD to sell, in my mind. But, if they copy my design to have business cards done, I dont see that as something I can control, mainly because I sell the copyright to the client on the initial sign.

The way around it is to by the $1 CD's of frank sinatra etc that have expired the royalty period (25 years) then you have no problems.
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David Rowland

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Post Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:09 am

and how much would I have to pay? does it apply to more then one radio?
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Post Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:28 pm

Marcella wrote: I'll just sing you all a tune instead then, shall I? (-music)


Don't forget you need a licence to perform in public places so don't sing too loudly - and you are required to pay royalties to the writers of whichever song you decide to destroy.

Walking through our workshops is like walking through a currys or comet - you hear countless different channels all at the same time cos everyone brings their own radio / cd players in... and nobody will give in to synchronisation.

Come the revolution!......... I will play bagpipe versions of rock classics through very large tannoy horns (out of my earshot of course).

Col
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Marcella Ross

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Post Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:31 pm

coolinshot wrote:
Marcella wrote: I'll just sing you all a tune instead then, shall I? (-music)


and you are required to pay royalties to the writers of whichever song you decide to destroy.


Col



destroy?????? I'll have you know I have a singing voice like nails scratching down a blackboard! :D
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George Elsmore

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Post Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:01 pm

that good huh :lol1:
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coolinshot

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Post Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:15 pm

coolinshot wrote:
Marcella wrote:destroy?????? I'll have you know I have a singing voice like nails scratching down a blackboard! :D


Yes I often hear that sound (whenever the wind is in the wrong direction) I've wondered where on Earth such an ungodly sound could come from - thanks for clearing that up but please stop, it's winding my dog up.

Col

ps - Its not really a wind-up dog
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Post Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:06 am

Shane Drew wrote:
Peter Normington wrote:Ok this may be a bit contencious and some may say you are hypocrits. why should you think it ok to nik someones music, but be the first to complain if your design was copied?



My thought is that if I was copying the music, and making money ie reproducing it for sale, or singing their songs for money, then they have an argument.

But, I originally purchase the CD for personal use, then why can't I play it to friends. I'm actually promoting their music for free.

If someone copies my artwork, and gives it to another sign person to reproducem then that is akin to copying a CD to sell, in my mind. But, if they copy my design to have business cards done, I dont see that as something I can control, mainly because I sell the copyright to the client on the initial sign.

The way around it is to by the $1 CD's of frank sinatra etc that have expired the royalty period (25 years) then you have no problems.



Dont know about ozz shane, but in the uk copyright lasts for 70 years after the owner dies, then again not sure if sinatra or his song writer would benefit most from royalties, which is different from copyright

Peter

Peter
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David Rowland

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Post Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:00 am

thought it was 50 peter... i know it's different age gap to the book writer one?
I have heard radio 1 talking about royalty payments in the past, if they play over 10 seconds of a tune then it counts of a payment of something like £25 or something.
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Post Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:09 am

Dave Rowland wrote:thought it was 50 peter... i know it's different age gap to the book writer one?
I have heard radio 1 talking about royalty payments in the past, if they play over 10 seconds of a tune then it counts of a payment of something like £25 or something.


Its boring, but it here
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1995/Uksi_19953297_en_1.htm

Peter
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Post Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:14 am

I get Lynn to mark the bits I should read.. lol
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Phill Fenton

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Post Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:48 pm

Apparently Cliff Richard is concerned that he will no longer recieve royalties on some of his earliest songs as they are now approaching 50 years.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4917550.stm
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Shane Drew

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Post Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:02 pm

Peter Normington wrote:

Dont know about ozz shane, but in the uk copyright lasts for 70 years after the owner dies, then again not sure if sinatra or his song writer would benefit most from royalties, which is different from copyright

Peter


You may be right about copyright mate, but I was talking about royalties myself. Apparently it is 50 years tho, not 25 as I thought.

No difference to me. The rat pack CD's (Martin, Sinatra etc) I play on my music-on-hold are over 50 year old recordings anyway, so I'm still covered. :-?

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