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Gerber Edge help please , before I decide to buy

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Post Tue Mar 25, 2003 4:22 pm

Gerber Edge help please , before I decide to buy

Hi all, I'm toying with the idea of buying an edge,
I understand it doesn't actually cut the graphic out after printing, so do you manually cut the graphic out or do you all have the correct plotter to do this job?

I suppose my Roland plotter isn't compatible with the edge either
But is Signlab e6?
or do I need other specialist software too?


Also is the new Jetster able to print graphics as small as an edge would
or is there a minimum size it will print? as this seems a better price and could open new opportunities with the larger stuff

Cheers
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Post Tue Mar 25, 2003 4:54 pm

If you purchase the Edge you will need a 380mm sprocketed plotter to be able to cut the designs. Don't even think about purchasing one if you do not intend getting the correct plotter to go with it, afterall would you buy a pretty sports car without an engine!!!!!! I think not! This is one corner you can't cut.

I also think you will need the Gerber software to run the machine as Gerber make it hard for you to use third party programs.
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Post Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:17 pm

all you need from Gerber is the edge, Signlab 6.1 will do the rest..
even the cutting to any plotter
the new 'edge ready module from signlab gives you great control over halftones, overprint and overlap, it will also auto contour cut around your decal or image and with signlabs registration mark system you can line the print up on pretty much any cutter,
however signlab will also drive all the gerber plotters too even back to the old 4B's

if you need any more info, let me know
regards
tony

sorry, didnt see the bit about the jetster
inkjet should be fine down to about A4 size, perhaps not quite the clarity you would get from a thermal device like the edge
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Post Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:40 pm

I too have been looking into the strange and wonderfull world know as the "edge" :P


Buy the complete kit. Edge, cutter and Omega software. It will actually cost you more if you just buy the Edge and Cutter.

Cost £12,995.00p

beware, training is an extra cost of £500 for 4 days @ Bristol.

I beleive VMP is also looking into running the edge.

Tony.
I must say I have my douts about using a friction machine to contour cut printed decals. They do tend to wander off abit.
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Post Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:51 pm

if pushed they will sell a stand alone edge,
an edge 1, I thought was around £8K, you could also look at second hand edge 1's at around £5K

A good friction fed machine like a Graphtec or the newer Rolands should track 5 - 10 metres, however you would actually end up with registration issues on the print at that length

to avoid these issues you can print in batches of 2-3 metres and then cut
as long as it is aligned correctly there shouldnt be too many issues

you can also assign a bleed on the print which would also help if the cutter did start to move.
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Post Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:02 pm

hi tony
welcome to the uksb mate..
thanks for taking the time to post. :wink:

while im here can i just remind you that posts made on this site are to help, advise & share thoughts. "not sell"

for more info, please read board rules. :wink:
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Post Tue Mar 25, 2003 7:23 pm

I'll try and stay impartial, Im only here to represent the down trodden salesman :D

looking forward to making some usefull contributions

tony :wink:
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Post Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:51 pm

Gerber Edge

I must say that if I'd known how mind-bogglingly awkward the Edge early software was I would have bought a different machine instead. The fact that they charge such exorbitant fees for training......I am entirely self-taught in all aspects of the sign business & have been at it for 10 years now. But the Edge almost broke my spirit!
All the corporate bullshit about wonderful, caring service is just too far wide of the mark. I had to sue them for compensation after they installed my Edge incorrectly, and I suffered 6 weeks nightmare scenario with the machine.
Try going to the US website "4Edge.com" for other peoples input. Some give alarming warnings about upgrading to Omega too. The edge does do some great things, but the software is antique in my experience. Also watch out for cost of maintenance contract! Good luck you guys!
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Post Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:06 pm

Absolutely fine by me Tony, make as many helpful posts as you like mate.
If someone asks a Signlab question then fire away & reply to that question, but unnecessary elaborating and venturing into “what else it can do” is frowned upon by myself & I must ask to refrain from doing so or future post permissions will be withdrawn.
This has happened in the past on numerous occasions. Resulting in the person or supplier being banned.
We welcome suppliers to the board. But as long as they realise the site “does” run “without” them & is successful due to this.
Lets take Brian from Impact Signs & Richard Clark of Raccoon. Both suppliers to the trade & both regulars on this site. Each one joined in to back their product being discussed in a post. When it was done they joined other posts
Giving unbiased opinions. As time goes on we grow to trust and share in their views. I bet now if someone from here needs some digital printing or a vehicle library. Impact or raccoon are one of the first they think about!
It is also easier to call them having spoke to them online & ask some questions. Who knows they may even give you a bit of discount… this to me is the way to treat the site & for suppliers to maybe get some free advertising from it.
Not to come on and rape the boards of some free limited time advertising posts.
These people are simply barred and we all have a chuckle at their expense.. Then move on and they are forgot.
Signlab is, in “my” eyes. The best sign package on the market. Like bob Gilliland it would be good to have another
Expert on the software at hand to help around here.. So you’re more than welcome, but please stick to the board rules, as I do not make any exceptions.

now lets get back to the real reason behind this post.. :o
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Post Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:40 pm

I think the Edge is a great machine, and I'd love to have one.

My advice...

Buy the Edge and run it for now with Signlab and your Roland. Oh, and screw them down on price - even shop around for leasing or loans if you're getting one on the never-never.

I would be surprised if you reached the limitations of this combination, but if you did - you can always change the plotter and/or the software.

We have Adobe design software plus flexisign on Mac and PC, and a Graphtec cutter (similar to your Roland). When we buy an Edge we'll be using our existing packages and plotter to drive the beast.

And if anyone has a second hand Edge for £5k or less, give me a shout!
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Post Wed Apr 02, 2003 6:07 pm

fluidedge wrote:And if anyone has a second hand Edge for £5k or less, give me a shout!


Me too !
Thanks for all the replies
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Post Wed Apr 02, 2003 7:54 pm

edge

the people i visit here in the north west that have the edge,

and i have a good few accounts with this machine

no one ever express's any regrets regrets :)

good little machines, however i would be tempted with the full supported package,

ie the plotter , printer and software,

shop around for the ribbons though the prices vary,
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Post Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:04 pm

would be interesting to hear what others pay for edge ribbons..
i am selling the signfoils equivelant & oracal banner vinyls. should have them loaded tonight but comp problems are holding things up right now... :x :evil:
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Post Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:28 pm

What about Roland ribbons Rob - Will you be selling these?
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Post Thu Apr 03, 2003 7:05 pm

you have to carefull when buying foils, it shouldn't just be based on price
each foil manufacturer requires different heat settings
using one heat setting but putting a different foil in the machine can lead to very unexpected results with colour matching.

the foils need heat setting adjustment and calibration through the software
which vinyl you use also effects this.

colour management is one of the biggest problems I see across the country, scanners not calibrated to monitors, software not calibrated to the output device, specifying one foil and vinyl then using a different one
and then wondering why the ' blue is coming out purple (?)

ribbon price variations will depend on more than one thing also,
length of foil, grade of foil and quantity purchased...

I have seen prices from £27 - £70
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Post Thu Apr 03, 2003 8:36 pm

Hi Tony, interesting point about colour calibration.

Is there a way of adjusting the colour ouput to a Colorcamm in Signlab? I have used both Roland cartridges and Apollo refill ribbons, and find both can give completely different shades of colour to that seen on the screen. Particularly blue colours - but also grey colours coming out with an orange tint. Is there a way I can fine tune this?
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Post Fri Apr 04, 2003 12:25 am

hi phill.. sorry mate, dont have a source as yet for those type of ribbons.
im not actualy out looking for products as such to sell.. the 3 main suppliers
of the shop offered various other products with their vinyls. so in turn i can offer these also with some discount. edge ribbons being one of them..

once i find my feet and everything is loaded i will start adding many more products.. :wink:

it will be a few weeks yet though, before all is done :o :( :wink:
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Post Fri Apr 04, 2003 7:39 am

Hi Phil, do you print through Signlab to Rolands colourcamm driver
or do you print using Signlab's RIP ?
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Post Fri Apr 04, 2003 8:49 am

95% of the time I print through Signlab to Rolands Colorcamm driver. Very rarely (only on large files) do I use the RIP
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Post Fri Apr 04, 2003 9:29 am

OK, Rolands driver uses Windows colour management
to convert from RGB to CMYK, really you need a decent RIP to handle this as windows doesn't really do a good job.
The roland driver in e6 is not that great either hence the new Thermal module.

this is your answer really, it uses Agfa's colourtune (colour management)
which will give you more control over the colours, your greys for example currently get printed with all foils CMYK, giving this tinge to the output
typically adding Yellow and Megenta
where really you only want the Black or a % of black to be used giving you the correct colour.

you can also colour manage signlab to proof for windows printers or for the RIP / output device, this effectively shows you on screen what will be printed more accurately than before, with the Blue for example.

that said it is not the complete answer...
thermal devices have a limited 'colour Gamut' i.e. the range of colours the device can actually print, using 4 foils. compare this to your RGB monitor which can show a much wider gamut, for example you can quite easily create a very vibrant lime green on the screen but there is no way on earth the PC 60 can print it as it is 'out of gamut ' so what happens is
the RIP takes it to the edge of the gamut resulting in the wrong colour output.

to enhance the colour gamut or widen it you need to introduce 'Hexachrome' this is a printing method using 6 colours instead of 4, CMYK + orange and green.
you will see this method used in the high end large format market, the Big Rolands, Encads etc.

foils have an effect too, if you look to Rolands original foils you will probably find they are much more vibrant than others.

in short, calibrate your monitor / scanner.
use the most vibrant foils (not always the cheapest), set up the colour management in signlab to proof for the device and use the new thermal module to control it all.

finally, if you are using different software packages to edit your image
i.e corel, photoshop, illustrator before it goes into signlab try and keep the colour mode all the same, each package colour manages slightly different. so if you scan in RGB then covert to CMYK in Photoshop
then open it back up in Signlab (which will revert to RGB)
you are more likely to get inconsistant results. stay in RGB all the time.
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Post Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:51 pm

Re: Gerber Edge help please , before I decide to buy

Have a look at the Summagraphics printer called the DC3 before going ahead & buying an edge.


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Post Fri Apr 04, 2003 3:30 pm

not sure how to link to previous posts,( perhaps rob could let me know) but there has been posts on the DC3 recently,
Harry, the DC3 can not be run by Signlab and that is what outline has..

Rob, is this not a blatent sales pitch :evil: (:) (!)
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Post Sat Apr 05, 2003 11:49 am

Gerber Edge/DC3 / Replies / Comments

Sorry I'm new to "chat" lines so I will probably make errors and offend people.

"there HAVE been posts on the DC3" ?????

No Rob it was not intended as a BLATANT sales pitch.
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Post Sun Apr 06, 2003 6:10 pm

hi harry and welcome to the boards mate..
good to see you posting.. :wink:

i dont think tony meant your post offended him. , he too is also a supplier. i think what he meant was that,
the rule of the site for suppliers is that they can help & advise any sign maker that makes a post directed at their products or any product for that matter. but even at this can't openly try and sway folk from a product or to contact them regarding a product.

this isnt meant to offend any suppliers or make life difficult for them.
its basicaly so this site doesnt end up like all the other sign sites...
full of posts by suppliers trying to promote there products.
suppliers argueing or slagging off other suppliers products & the like.
im not by any means suggesting this is happening here. the board rules are just to prevent it ever raising its head.

hope this explanation helps & doesnt offend. :wink:


hope to see more posts from you :D
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Post Mon Apr 07, 2003 5:14 pm

The Gerber EDGE continues to prove to be an excellent investment and is well-worth your consideration, "outline".

If you look at the EDGE as an investment, then I would suggest you consider maintaining the integrity of Gerber's "Matched Technology System" (MTS) in order to facilitate optimal return on investment (ROI). This means buying a Gerber sprocket-fed plotter and using Gerber software to drive the two devices.

The "Signlab E6" thermal module has some admitedly impressive features and is worth your consideration -- from the perspective that you are familiar with the platform and may quite understandibly want to minimize your learning curve. HOWEVER, Gerber OMEGA 2.0 definitely closes the gap that Cadlink created for themselves with E6 a short time ago and choosing Gerber software has the distinct advantage of making one vendor accountable for technical support. (No chance of "It's not the software, it's the hardware" frustration).

If you're going to cut EDGE graphics on a friction fed machine (particularly an older model), be prepared to sacrifice print-to-cut accuracy (some brands will be worse than others, as well). Depending on the expectations of your clientele, this may or may not be an issue. It does mean that you will potentially leave your competitors who run both a Gerber EDGE and Gerber plotter with a competitive advantage to exploit to their benefit. Finding work arounds for using non-Gerber plotters might also prove annoying and expensive (if you value your time).

Gerber have fine-tuned everything from software to consumable materials to work together, as a system (MTS). If you "opt in" and stick with all-Gerber MTS components, you can count on your system delivering such Gerber hallmarks as walk-away operation and reliable, predictible performance for the product's lifetime. The alternatives -- however attractive -- simply don't (because they can't) offer the same promise.
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Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:42 am

Gerber Edge v DC3

?????? said the DC3 will not suit ???????? because it won't run from Sign Lab and that is the software he uses.

The DC3 does not need Sign Lab or any other "third party" software to drive it.
It comes with it's own [and simple to use] RIP which can process EPS files which can be generated in Sign Lab, Corel Draw, Adobe Illustrator or any other piece of software you choose to use.
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Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:04 am

Harry. Tony never said "the DC3 will not suit - because it won't run from Signlab" - he actually said "the DC3 cannot be run by signlab". There is a difference here. And it was an answer to an earlier question that I had asked (albeit in a different forum) - I had wanted to know if the new features of the new thermal transfer module in Signlab could also be used on the DC3 - these features do apply to the Gerber edge and Colorcamm - but as yet not to the DC3 which as you have pointed out has its own RIP software.

Here's the link which should help to explain the discussion:-
https://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=2433

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