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getting too many bubbles when applying vinyl to lorry side?

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David Chilten

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Post Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:10 pm

getting too many bubbles when applying vinyl to lorry side?

My first attempt to apply 651 vinyl 245mm x 3300 on a lorry side. I have applied application paper and then masking taped the application paper in place then removing the backing applied the vinyl to the GPR body. The amount of bubbles is appauling. I have applied small areas of Vinyl and lettering with great results, now I feel inadequate, I have attempted to apply the Vinyl wet!

what am I doing wrong shall I just kill myself or can you help
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Adam McGuire

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Post Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:25 pm

I had the same problem a week ago doing my first Impreza Rally set. (Pictures will be posted in the portfolio soon :) ) I've applied a fair amount dry now, and I was really annoyed when I started noticing bubbles in the swirls. So annoyed in fact I ripped the whole lot off one side and did it again. (751c) I still got bubbles, so I sat there for 10 minutes popping them and squeezing the air out. Basically if you look up close, you can see some outlines, but otherwise, the job looks ok. I found that peeling back less backing and using firm pressure with a felt squeegy I minimised the number of bubbles.

Not sure if theres a better method? :-? I also noticed that if the application tape had bubbles between it and the vinyl, sometimes bubbles appeared in the vinyl as I smoothed the design on.

Hope this helps?

Adam
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Marcella Ross

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Post Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:28 pm

If you're applying it to a smooth flat area, then try applying wet. If it's hot where you're working that could be the reason for the bubbles. Is the vinyl one section or individual letters? If it's letters then cut between them whilst they're taped in position with the backing paper still on and do a couple at a time.
:D
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David Chilten

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Post Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:32 pm

Adam
Exactly the same problem, I have ripped the whole lot off (Twice)
your right about the bubbles in the application paper, it's so hot if I pull it back it just strechs the Vinyl.

Marcela
The Vinyl is a solid block,

I've seen Robs Video, it looks so easy

(Calming down slowly Phewwwwwwwwwwww)
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Martin Grimmer

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Post Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:56 pm

David,

The only thing I can think of adding is that when I first started doing it and had similar problems to yourself is that I wasn't applying enough pressure when laying it down. Now I am fairly brutal and there are significantly less bubbles. I also try to make sure the squeegee is pointing forward - if that makes sense (i.e. push the bubbles out - dont push/squash them into the vinyl).

Think got these pointers from Rob's video too.

Hope may help.

Martin
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Jayne Marsh

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Post Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:25 pm

So long as there are no rivets and its a flat even surface, I would definitely do it wet especially in this weather. I prob wouldnt use application tape either, ( but that's prob one of my own personal methods and not everyone would do it like this )
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David Chilten

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Post Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:29 pm

Tried it woithout application tape first, it was just as bad. What tools should I be using and where can I get them form?
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Marcella Ross

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Post Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:49 pm

A soild block going on to a flat surface, soak it and float it on, no app tape. Plenty fluid and use a felt sqeegee. Any vinyl supplier that you may use should be able to get you a good felt sqeegee. Don't do it in direct sunlight ... not in this heat, it will surely blister!

Deep breath ....... and try again! It's the only way, practice makes perfect (or in my case practice makes acceptable!!!!! :D ) :wink:
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Jayne Marsh

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Post Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:08 pm

Just as Marcella says, float it on! Wet the lorry surface first, then the back of the vinyl taking care not to wet the backing paper ( take the backing paper off first :D ) then making sure everything is wet put the vinyl in position and when you're happy with the position squeegee over the top of the vinyl with a felt squeegee working from the centre out making sure you push as much water out as possible. It should be possible to get a really even application with virtually no bubbles..........practice makes perfect :D
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Post Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:14 pm

Large areas done wet can be even worse to get the fluid out than air blubbs in a dry app; it does depend on your technique and experience.
In this weather. i tend to use a 3m gold squeegey, dry app. it does it for me. doing vinyl wet with a felt squeegey just wrecks the squeegey.
Also 751c is a good vynil, but It is not the best to apply if you are not experienced with it, it is not very forgiving. Its a bit like chewing gum, once its on its on, it is also difficult to "snap off" even with app tape applied.
I would say try avery700 or mac 9800 the are a bit easier to apply, you can then get a better finish and when you have gained the experience, move over to 751.

Just my fourpen'orth

Peter
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David Chilten

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Post Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:16 pm

Thanks for your support

it's 18:15 and I've decided to follow my new motto

"When the going gets tough ! JUST GIVE UP! "

So I'm going to follow that motto and go home, I will attack the lorry again tomorrow,

Thanks again

Dave
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Post Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:21 pm

Just covered a hot van window with Oracal 651.
I flooded the hell out of it with Rapid Tac.
Flooded the back of the vinyl too (no app tape)
Floated it on and squegeed the bejeezus out of it with my Gold 3M.
Nary a bubble.
Mind you I am not good at sticking stickers.
I would say you definately must use the wet method when it's hot out.
Tomorrow is another day.
love....jill
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Peter Shaw

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Post Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:30 pm

Felt squeegees often do not allow enough pressure. If laying wet without application tape, place the backing paper on the vinyl when it is in place, carefully use a normal squeegee to "clamp" it in position and then squeegee the liguid out from the center as normal. The backing paper will prevent scratching.

Peter
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Stephen Morriss

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Post Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:46 am

Mactac do their 9800 series with a textured glue, this stops it sticking down hard and the texture lets the air out, the texture then settles out or so I'm told.
I'll admit I've not used it yet but hope to on the next flood fill I do on a wagon.

Steve
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Post Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:39 pm

HI Dave,

Ask Robert how he managed to wrap the 10 dairy vehicles so quickly , he used 3651 which is the digital equivalent to 651... he used a product called Command Form to help, it appears to be dry and you apply it dry but it allows the air to be pushed out and gives the vinyl a very low initial tack , instructions for use come in every bottle. Its very new so does not explain in anyway why Robert always applies dry!!!!!

Hope this helps .... Ask Robert what he thought.
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Robert Lambie

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Post Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:51 pm

:lol1: sorry cameron... we havent used it on any of those vehicles. in the end we managed to find a warehouse big enough to hold the trucks out of the scorching heat. :cool:

but they were all done dry :D :wink:


i did try it on huge glass etch windows a few weeks ago, south facing 1pm in HOT weather. worked a treat! :D
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David Chilten

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Post Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:33 am

Thanks everybody for your support, I decided not to kill myself and attacked the truck on Friday,

When you guys say wet, you mean wet wet, the Vinyl applied a treat in scorching heat, looks fantastic,

I still need a lot of practice,

Rob your video clip of applying dry really helped even though I applied wet, it's all in the Rhythm!!!!!!

Can you give me some names and URLS of on-line suppliers where I can buy application tools from

Dave
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Post Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:14 am

Graphityp, and Jagsign supplies are 2.
Graphityp has a link on the forum index page

Peter

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