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7.5 TON curtain sider

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Post Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:36 pm

7.5 TON curtain sider

Right, I posted a topic up on a board - which I can't find just now - about signwriting the curtains of a 21 foot curtain side van...

Now, speaking with mike, I was going to paint this on with a template BUT the customer does not want this painted on at all, he wants it done using vinyl :o :cry: I'm aware that truck vinyl has to be used but...

1. How do I do this?
2. Where do I get it from?
3. Is it an absolute nightmare?

I've tried convincing him that painting it is by far the best way but no he want's it in truck vinyl.

Cheers

Gav
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Robert Lambie

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Post Thu Feb 20, 2003 12:05 am

COX & APA do truck vinyl...
i hear the stuff cox do is an arm and a leg. apa is reasonable compared, but not cheap.

fitting? well you wont do it yourself. maybe even three bodies needed if the text is big. two applying and one inside the truck holding an 8x4 sheet of .75 inch ply against the curtain.

use felt squeegee or roller.. the corners of the nylon squeegee i find catch the curtain a bit.. dig in when you dont want it too... :roll:

if the text or logos are fairly small.. but long lines then fine.. go for it..
if its large graphics in one peice then i would avoid if your new to the game.. this stuff is very very sticky and sould be applied dry.. once it touchies its stuck.
Last edited by Robert Lambie on Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Peter





Post Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:39 am

Spandex also do specialist curtain vinyl.
Curtains have to be cleaned thoroughly, then cleaned again with meths.
Personally, I avoid this type of job like the plaque!
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Vic Adair

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Post Sat Feb 22, 2003 9:58 pm

Hi Gav,

We do quite a few curtain-siders and we use Avery signflex, from Cox. It is possible to do it on your own, depending on the size.

As robert says this stuff is VERY, VERY Sticky. Once it sticks there is no getting it off.
Always make sure the curtain has been well tightened up.

I always do it wet and get great results. If you must do it dry do it when its cold, first thing in the morning or late in the afternoon. You don't get a second chance. I use a squeegee.


One Tip; when removing the application tape the vinyl may peel back as well , just apply a little heat to dry off the edge.

I've heard of the guy with the 8x4........ thought it was a wind-up LOL
:lol:
Vic
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Robert Lambie

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Post Sun Feb 23, 2003 2:23 am

Hi Vic
I would have thought if applying it wet that you would need that bit more pressure to get the water out from beneath. Over a wide area with a nylon squeegee, with pressure I would have thought it very difficult to get water out from beneath in the central area of the squeegee. Not impossible I agree, I’m only saying out of curiosity as you also say you have nothing to the rear to keep the curtain rigged.
What I mean is: take a tight PVC curtain & then push firmly into it with the edge of the nylon squeegee. You will see that only about 1 inch in from each side of the squeegee is actually in firm contact with the curtain as the centre will belly away.

The 8x4 does sound pretty funny, I agree! I thought the same when I heard it the first time here on this site.
But when I tried it while applying a huge graphic in multiple layers, it worked a treat.

When you say you apply wet.. How long do you leave it before allowing the customer to use it?
Like you said, when you peal the app tape back it sometimes lifts the vinyl…
I would imagine a curtain crumpled up and tightened every hour or so while in use could cause lots of damage
To a newly applied vinyl job…
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Fat Bob

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Post Sun Feb 23, 2003 10:14 am

Hi Guys

Come on Now Youre Quite Happy To Throw your Money AT Expensive Products like Avery Sign flex Which is a great product for this type of work. And you are Obviously not Reading the product application Guides

It is supposed to be applied wet with a water meths mix of 6 to 1 the adesive is made to react to the meths to set it off.

I Know we think we know it all but we often get caught out when using materials like these ask for the information sheets And Read them.
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Robert Lambie

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Post Sun Feb 23, 2003 10:54 am

hi bob.
thank you for pointing that out mate. ive never bought but have used the avery stuff once or twice, didnt know about a spec sheet mate. but i guess all vinyls have one and should be read when first using them.

with regards to the method of application.. if they say apply wet and it comes off then i geuss you have them to fall back on.. so thats good! :wink:

my personal opinion of applying wet is it is only advised to make life easier on the applicator and to "maybe" sell a difficult vinyl to apply. :roll:
i do hear what you say about the meths and water, but you still have to get the moisture out from beneath a flexible surface with tenson straps. . is there a certain amount of drying time you should give this vinyl after applying? i would have thought it would be substantial.

rapid-tac advise the same thing. special chemicals in the application fluid that activate the adhesive and give it a better bite than if it was applied dry.. again if anything helps the vinyl bite better after being applied wet then im all for it.. they do also have a very good reputation in the states.
but again i would never advise somone to do a vehicle wrap with the stuff. even though they say its is totally fine..

vics tip on pealing:
One Tip; when removing the application tape the vinyl may peel back as well , just apply a little heat to dry off the edge.


this to me, tells me that contact, adhesion is not as good as dry when first applied. maybe once it has dried out it would be...

how do you find it to apply bob how long do you give it to dry out?
if the answer is no there isnt any special drying time ide be up to using the vinyl but i am "as usual" :oops: not convinced with wet app, especially on a vinyl this exspensive. :roll:
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Fat Bob

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Post Sun Feb 23, 2003 9:57 pm

Hi Rob

I was not having a dig at you personally its just i noticed some of the other guys seem to have spent thier money on this product and they now what they wanted it for but they seem to treat it as normall vinyl which it aint.

After applying it with the wet method on one side of the vehicle which took about an hour in all I started the other side only to realise I had messed up with the spacing of one part of a design so deciced as I had a spare to strip one part off and replacet in a different possition the piece was a triangle shape cut out of a 750mm sq piece

I went back to the other side to strip it and it was a total sod to get off and it had only been on an hour on a typical january day and thier was no sun and the vehicle was done out in the open.

It really is a weird vinyl if you clean or have brand new curtains it seems almost waxy or greasy to the touch and if you put some of this vinyl down
dry it does not seem to want to stick, put the meths & water on sqeegee out as normal remove application tape carefully wipe away excess water with tissue and pow it just seems to go off after using it you will get a feel for it you dont have to use a lot of pressure either or this causes wrinkles.

Anyway back to the main point if you got a problem or want to use a vinyl for something your not sure about nag your supplier for spec sheets or fitting advice notes. It may save you hours of heartache as well as your cash. A typical example we all use 5-7 year vinyl on our signs and are quite happy stickin down that lovely metalic silver that is in the same range we are using and telling the customer itl last for 5-7 years or longer if he's lucky :lol: :lol: Read the spec not all but some of you depending
what material your using might be suprised

Till the next time
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Robert Lambie

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Post Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:32 am

No not at all Bob . I Didn’t take it that way mate…
Sorry if you thought I had. Im not the best at posting and not sounding like i've gone off on one…
To be totally honest mate. My problem with wet application is i’ve grown totally ignorant to it in the past 5 years or more..
I did like most do, use wet method to apply graphics in the begining, but I’ve grown so tired of the wait on the moisture drying out, and in most cases I would rush a job only to be called back because the guy had blown letters of it with power washer the next day or with a rag rubbing it… silly things that I now get peace of mind doing everything dry.
When v-wrap came along and I spoke to more a more vinyl guys I just stopped even considering wet application…
All this said. If the vinyl you have mentioned does work better wet then that’s the way to do it!
I wouldn’t try to argue the point on a vinyl that specifies wet app but normally do “being me” if someone asked my opinion on general vinyl applications…
I know you have worked with v-wrap and many other vinyl’s over the years Bob so I do respect your opinion mate.

Just ignore me if I sound off… 9/10 times im smiling at my end typing these replies… its just my punctuation and spelling is so bad I sound like god knows what…
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Gray.Hodge

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Post Mon Feb 24, 2003 1:17 pm

Bob, I've only used the Avery product once and everything you say is true, very weird stuff, but works brilliantly and seems to defy all the rules for vinyl aplication.
But it goes on and stays on.
________
PENNY STOCK PICK
Last edited by Gray.Hodge on Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vic Adair

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Post Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:06 pm

Hi Bob,

Nice to hear from someone else using signflex.
Rob you don't have to use much pressure to apply it.
What I do is apply it with a soft pressure first to get it on flat then go back over it a little heavier to remove all the water.
I use about 60% of Rapid Tack Application Fluid with water or there abouts never just water.
Also I do tend to hinge bigger pieces, applying the centre and holding the ends out as I squeegee the water out. any trapped water (oh i swore !) & squeeze out and try a little heat.
As for the corners peeling back when removing the appl. tape, if you were to grab the corner of the vinyl and try and peel the rest, you would find that the rest was stuck down fast and all you would do was stretch it.
I've finished a job in the afternoon and the customer has taken it away that night and its never came back.
As bob was saying about applying it to new curtains which are a bit waxy always clean the curtain with meths.
For some reason it will not stick straight away to some banners yet with curtains its like using super glue.
Again, as for drying times it all depends on room temp. and wether wet or dry applied....... from 1 second to a couple of minutes , if your lucky!
Bob was spot on with spec sheets we should all read them.

Signflex is great for curtains but is VERY,VERY VERY STICKY when down........................................ BE CAREFUL!!!!!!!!!

Vic
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Robert Lambie

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Post Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:26 pm

good advice vic.. ill bow out to you, bob & gray as i have, like i said only used it once or twice.so i certainly wont try argue my point. but again, when i did use it .. i did apply dry, no problems!
if doing it wet is recomended also, then thumbs up from me. :wink:

its good to hear two sides to the story. i would never have tried it wet and would never have let any of our guys apply it in this fashion. now i know ill allow them to if they think it will help them out applying it.

like we all have agreed truck vinyl is very sticky indeed ! :wink:
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Fat Bob

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Post Wed Feb 26, 2003 12:04 am

Hi guys

I see where your coming from Rob as When doing most of the work that I do I would not dream of trying it wet.

But enough of the banter Gav have you done the job yet as you should have read these posts and dived in and done it by now if you mess it up itll only cost you £150 in materials that might sound like a lot but if you went on a course to teach you how to do it itll be twice as much. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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WP_Graphics

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Post Wed Feb 26, 2003 12:17 am

Hi Guys,

Have not done the job yet but I'm hopefully about to, cheers for your points on this, I can safely say I'm not looking forward to this :(

I'll keep you posted!"

Gav
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Phill Fenton

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Post Wed Feb 26, 2003 12:20 am

Have faith - you've had the best advice any signmaker could ever get so don't you worry about it at all - it'll be a breeze :wink:

Pretty soon you'll have them queing up to do curtainsiders :cool:
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Robert Lambie

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Post Wed Feb 26, 2003 12:34 am

like phill said mate.. dont worry! all will be well in the end.. :wink:

if you finish and its all bubbles. squint and starting to peal! just click your heels together three times and say theres no place like home, theres no place like home.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

why not before you take it on or even when you do... get a A4 size bit for truck vinyl and try applying it to the inside or a corner of the curtain.. get a feel for it first... if it scares you after that.. then sub the application to someone else.. but remember to check a subbing cost before hand.. dont want to d it for nothing!
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Vic Adair

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Post Wed Feb 26, 2003 10:55 pm

Best of luck Gav!!

As Delboy would say " he who dares, he who dares"
If your based in Glasgow or Paisley let me know and i'll pop round and give you a hand.

Vic
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WP_Graphics

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Post Thu Feb 27, 2003 12:01 am

Cheers

Cheers guys, will let you know how I get on!

Vic - I'm in Aberdeen, thanks for the offer though!

Gav

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