I just hope I am not the person who brings it to the States upon my return.
Love....Jill

You're a mad bird already jill!

I don't understand all the headline news.

On the one hand they tell us about this virus then an expert is brought in to re-assure the public that bird flu is very difficult/virtually impossible to pass onto humans. No need to panic. If that's the case - what's all the fuss about then? Honestly I really don't get it

I was talking to an SSPCA inspector today who tells me a woman in Edinburgh phoned them today to ask if she should get her budgie put down. Meanwhile sales of rubber gloves are going through the roof as poultry farms start panic buying.

Come on Phill, marketing opportunity, get those 'CONTAMINATED AREA' 'KEEP OUT' signs stockpiled now!

They only say that because they care....... they don't want us catching Mad Cow Disease

i heard a swan can break a mans arm
my wife goes mad as i cant help asking people with there arm in a sling
" did a swan do that"
is it true

confused Derek

with a surname like yours derek... I'd go to the doc at the first sign of a cough or sniffle!

Well as per usuall there running around like headless chickens............no doubt it will be a replay of BSE.........

I work every other Saturday selling eggs for my girlfriends father. He no longer keeps birds but is very concerned 30 odd years of trading could all go t*ts up....

Free Range eggs will soon be a lie.....as they will all be inside. And Organic well.that in my mind has always been a joke. How can you have an organic egg if migrating birds can mix.......I don't get it.lol

The Experts contradict eachother so how the hell is the public suppose to have faith..........

Marcella you will soon get chicken free with every gallon of Petrol so don't worry.

As for humans catching it, in Thailand they live with the birds in very close proximity, but I guess experts are too scared of putting there necks on the line these days so tend to give info like a weather forcast with a bit of everything.

....they can't even break wind, never mind an arm.

Thanks david i shall now pick a fight with a swan.
All this time honking and lording it up king of the lake, mind you if its sneezing ! honkachoo

i'me off

Derek

Can we still eat cadbury's cream eggs?

John

I wouldnt worry about it, but then again I stopped eating mass produced "chicken" a long time ago, It is so cheap it cant be good for you.
Its always sick anyway, just look at the bones, dirty brown and soft, they should be white and hard! Southern fried chicken, yeahk! it stinks
I almost puke just thinking about it!!!


Peter

... Peter .... you've just put me off KFC ....

just listening to the news. Apparently the poultry industry makes £3bn each year in sales in the UK. That's waaaayyyy too much for the government to tell us it's not good for us to eat it!
Another thought...... if they inoculate chickens against this disease ...... there's something else we're ingesting..... eeewww.

you're hillarious Marcella. Just about choked on my toast when I read this line.

In all seriousness tho, the proximity of birds in your living conditions are the key.

I know wht you say about the contradictory expert advise, but I think some are more worried about protecting their own reputations than our health. The threat of bird flu should not be dismissed, but like all these things, someone in the community is not going to 'care', or belive 'it will never happen here', and they will be the weakest link in the countrys protection.

yeh it is a scary thought.... i buy my eggs and chickens free range from a local farm....begining to wonder if they are ok too, i think i will turn a veggie

nik

unfortunately Nik, it's your free range guys who will suffer most. As tim said earlier, 'free range will soon be a lie', they can't keep the birds outside anymore.

Mmmmmm suddenly lentil and nut bake sounds appetising! ooohh... with a little bit of couscous ... and tofu on the side

oh no...thats all i got when i was down in hove last week....... fish is dodgy to eat and meat...and veggies with chemicals...looks like i'll be on a liquid diet from now on.....

nik

nae wonder yer no weel hen!

im alright now....but once this liquid diet kicks in......im gonna have permanent purple stains round me lips


nik

blackberry breezers nik?

Surely you can't go wrong with a Pot Noodle?

The media frenzy has now ramped up.

Peoples livelihoods and businesses are at stake here all because a swan has died from avian flu. World wide less than a 100 Humans have died from a mutation of this virus (and thats' only if you believe the "official" figures" - In reality these people died in poverty due to malnutrition and poor living conditions) so where's the problem for Britain?

In 1918 the Asian flu virus wiped out millions of people in Europe. However, back then the average European had poor health and suffered from malnutrition excacerbated by the 1st World War - the same virus if it was to strike now would have little impact on the much more healthy people living today. Avian Flu isn't yet remotely as sinister as the asian flu virus that struck in 1918 so why the big deal!!

100's of people die on the roads in Britain on a daily basis in vehicle accidents yet there is no media frenzy as a result. And what about alcohol related deaths and domestic violence (surely not worthy of reporting because it's not sensational enough).

It's all a load of nonsense - it should be ignored completely as it will go away on its own accord, just like BSE has done and foot and mouth would have done if it had been left to it's own devices.

I really do despair of the so called experts we have advising our governments

well just on the news now.... in an attempt to halt the spread of bird flu, a long sleeping ira splinter cell has just attacked 'canary' wharf in a 9/11 style attack, however, first reports indicate that the hijacked goodyear blimp has repeatedly bounced off.

I think Phils comments are spot on.

Now think who is going to gain from all this publicity....it wouldnt be the major drug companies, that are already flat out making anti virus injections for humans and birds now would it?

Peter

I'm shocked Phill.

You mean the media have NOT got my best interests at heart here?

You are right of course. Never known the media to let the truth get in the way of a good story, ever.

The road toll is a good example. Another is death by drug abuse.

In australia we have one of the highest suicide rates amongst teenagers. It hardly rates a mention in the news now, but I bet the death rate is higher here per year than have died in the last 12 months from bird flu in your part of the world.

It may not be contagious like bird flu in a literal sense, but plenty of kids see it as the only solution, and scaring mongering like the world media do on this issue, will only send more negatives, and no positives.

Oh you old cynic Peter I hope all the reporters in Cellardyke catch it first, serves them right, 'Sky News Flu' it could be called then.

I had a lovely holiday in Fife 3 years ago, based in Crail just along from Cellardyke. Great fish and chips in Anstruther another village Pittenween, lovely part of the world, you lucky Scots!

I've resisted writing in this thread up till now but I feel I have to say something, and I'm not looking to cause an argument or discourse in the ranks or anything like that, however it seems to be the stiff upper lip kind of 'it'll never happen here' type of mentality that is prevalent in this discussion and possibly I think another should be aired.

OK.

My brother is a doctor, in Scotland. He came over to Australia recently and while he was here I was asking him about 'Bird Flu'.

To give you some background, I am the hippy in the family - the one interested in Reiki and alternative building and alternative healing etc. He is MR. Straight. Anytime I came at him with anything 'out of the ordinary' he would dispute it, spout facts and refuse to consider that there was anything in it worth thinking about.

What he told me worried me more than anything coming out of 'the media'. First of all he said the drug companies are making a killing under licence of the 'governments' to produce a vaccine that absolutely will not work (he is in a position to know these things - believe me). The 'governments' are very publicly getting the drug companies to produce these ineffective vaccines purely so that they can be seen to be doing something or more to the point can be seen to 'have' done something when the poo hits the fan.

He said that any Pandemic in the past, judging by the data he has read, will pale into insignificance compared with what we will be facing. he says the Health Service are going to be completely ill equiped and swamped by what will hit them.

I am far more able to trust my brother than I am the media and it worries me that the majority of people I hear talking about it seem to have very little understanding of what it is that we as the human race may well be about to face.

I for one really hope that it never comes to pass. However, would it not make sense to become a little bit prepared in-case it does?

We, for instance, have just planted large veggie patches so that if and when the virus does make it's leap from bird to human we will be in a position to live off our own food source rather than come into contact with food handled/sneezed on by sick people. Also we don't have to actually go into town where infected people will be.

If it hits really hard then I'm prepared to take of into the hills with my family and sit it out for 6 months.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not a 'survivalist' hoping it happens so that I can prove I'm right. I'm a Dad and husband who is trying to think ahead and second guess this problem.

Imagine if you will, the virus leaps from bird to human. You all know how quick and easy it is to catch normal flu. It stands to reason that this would be no different and could well be worse. If this is the case, how long is it going to be before the financial institutions that we all rely on so much are going to be compromised?

When I say that I obviously mean that the people who run and control our money are going to be sick at the least and dead at the worst. If that happens, how long do you think it will take for the financial institutions to collapse. You are going to need money to buy food, or at least whatever food is still available and useless medecine too, not forgetting petrol and diesil while it lasts. When there are no deliveries the shops will run out!

What do you do then?

Where are you going to go?

It's going to be a wee bit late to start planning then isn't it?

I hope you don't think I'm scaremongering, I wouldn't want to be accused of that. I do however think that you all should be considering the 'what if' factor more than you obviously are at the moment. It's so easy to bury your head in the sand and spout on that it's never going to happen and that it's all a media beat up.

But what if it does happen?

What are you going to do?

Do you think that the restaurant around the corner that is opening in a month and wants signs off you is really going to need them? Are you really going to care about making them anyway? How would they pay you? In food perhaps? OK who handled the food? Were they sick? Who cooked it? Were they sick?

All I'm asking you to do is have a wee think about what you might do, just in-case.

Call me a nutter, I don't care, I've been called far worse but I can't sit back and listen or read what you guys are saying without saying something.

So please take what I say in the spirit it is meant - and that is friendship.

Cheers

Simon.
(Now where's me AK 47?)

Simon I for one appreciate your honesty. that was the point I was making by saying that the government would never tell us anything different as there's too much money at stake.

I said last night to my hubby after watching The Scottish Executive make their news conference, that I'd love to know what the 'experts' were saying away from the cameras behind closed doors. I'm sure these guys and their families are more prepared than they'd let on.


Marcella

I understand what you mean Simon and that is one scenario that has been portrayed. I think our problem is this Goverment, well all Governments, don't instill confidence, and we are getting so fed up of them that we don't believe anything they say, and anything they do will also be a 'coc k up'

When we find out what politicians are doing secretely (building bunkers and buying up food and water stocks) then we will know the truth!

Chicks and Birds are Everywhere,
If a Chick starts sneazing,
And the Bird starts Coughing,
Is that Bird Flu?

Good Day to you all,



Joseph

Hi Guys, I was only joking to put up a little bit of moral.

What worries me is what is not being told.

People with power in their hands are always having their engines running, so they need to service them all the time.

Who are their fueling substances? the common citezen.


Just think about that.


Joseph

I'm not worried at all Simon. I've heard it all before.

Remember the Millenium bug. My nephew even filled his garage up with stocks of bottled water because he believed all the scaremongering about how civilisation was about to grind to a halt on the stroke of midnight 2000

It's the same nonsense all over again

I appreciate your honesty too mate, and I accept what you say about governments too. I have no doubt they are stone walling just about everyone.

But I think if we all lacked at least a little faith that at least someone has got a handle on this, it is/will be a totally debilatating thought. Why not just give up now?

Not everyone has the opportunity to plant their own patch of vegies after all. Personally I think we have to realise that we each have a responsibilty to each other in our community. Whether it be terrorism or bird flu.

We shouldn't be sitting back thinking our voted reps are looking out for us. Politics is the one industry that EVERYONE knows is corrupt, but powerless to change. No party or cause is exempt from the corrupting influence of power and greed.

My argument has always been that the press only want to report bad news. We see it in wars and conflicts all over the TV, and we see it in health issues. If it is good news it does not sell papers or reflect in the ratings.

When it comes to taking this seriously, I suspect everyone here knows the issues in front of us all. We have plenty of history to look back on - the spanish flu for one.

Technology is well advanced, but it is no good if we, the people, don't do our bit.

I'm not sure that looking at a doomsday scenario is really the motivation people need to be proactive. The best scenario for governments and the media is to be truthfull.

We all know the story of the boy that cried wolf. This is the same thing but on a larger scale.

Not forgetting that we have plenty of informed medical experts that tell us that smoking causes cancer and excessive drinking damages the liver. Not to mention aids and drug dependency. People still ignore the warning and live life as they wish. All the warnings in the world will not chnage their view. You know how many people die everyday as a result of smoking related deaths? It would be an epidemic by any other name.

In our society today, a lot of the health issues we face everyday are directly related to our past or present lifestyle. This is the main reason the poor countrys have been hit hardest. Places where they sleep with the birds, close proximity living.

End of the day, just like the black plague and epidemics before and after, if we can't have faith that someone will come up with a solution, then a simple sign guy trying to do his best will have little impact at all.

I don't say that we should ignore it, don't get me wrong, but individuals and organisations far bigger the my one man band are the ones that have to fix this, I am simply a passenger on the journey until they find it.

that was a mouth full shane.

john

... I'm still puffing mate

'I'm not worried at all Simon. I've heard it all before.
It's the same nonsense all over again '

OK Phil good on you. Everyone is free to think and act as they see fit. I hope you are right mate.


Shane.

' I think if we all lacked at least a little faith that at least someone has got a handle on this, it is/will be a totally debilatating thought. Why not just give up now? '

They have a handle on this like they have a handle on Aids. I'm sure that there are countless laboratories working away on this. One day someone will find something that helps and will charge accordingly. They probably have to find a cure for the common cold first though.

'Not everyone has the opportunity to plant their own patch of vegies after all. Personally I think we have to realise that we each have a responsibilty to each other in our community. Whether it be terrorism or bird flu. '

Most of our veggies have been planted into pots so we can move them if we need to. I think that if many people did just that then there would be more clean food around when needed and you would be helping the community by not using what stores are left.


'My argument has always been that the press only want to report bad news. We see it in wars and conflicts all over the TV, and we see it in health issues. If it is good news it does not sell papers or reflect in the ratings.'

Bad things are happening all around us. The news reports on them. We watch it. How the news is manipulated is the problem, but we still watch it. The point is can we see that it's being manipulated and make our minds up about what is the truth that affects us.


Bottom line is you have to do whatever it is that makes you feel safe. Probably nothing will happen and all will be the same. If that's the case then Whoopee it's breezers all round.

Cheers

May the force be with you.
Simon.

Simon,
none of us can change the world. we just have to make the most of it
dont eat chicken, Just best aberdeen angus beef,
Rice potatos or pasta are fairly safe on the side, Pig is still good to eat. but ideally you need to make friends with it, before you kill and eat it, For me it just tastes better that way. I love pork cracklin.... Grouse and pheasant and the odd quail dont present a problem, if you really need to eat birds.

Peter

pork cracklin peter....MMmmmmmmm

you make it sound like a hunt mate... i try very hard not to eat red meat. only one i do enjoy is fillet or sirlion steak. but only when eating out...
other than that im white meat man, still not much and virtually no fish.
im ignorant to how it is sold up but not niave enough to think its not barbaric somewhere along the line... oh i dont want to think about it now

thought we were talking about signs anyway?

Only my opinion and not trying to start an argument but the way some people are talking in this thread and in the media this is the end of civilisation.

If we looked at every problem this way we would be frightened to do anything, we would sit in our homes, vegitate then die.

Do we wrap our selves in radiation suits everytime we go for a walk?.
Do we test all our food for contanimation at every forkfull?.
Before crossing the road do we look up aswell as left and right, just in case there's a plane or dead bird about to hit us?.

We have had all this crap before with the aids and mad cow scares, yes these are highly contagious and life threatening but with time we have all learned to deal with it.

Don't believe the hype, these aren't new diseases they have probably been on this earth before we came along.

We only have a short time to live our lives - life is for the living, not for hiding in fear.

John

glad you're not trying to start an argument John

nope. https://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=145512#145512

and here too Hugh https://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.p ... 436#145436

oops ! i saved it tother day but only ust thought to post it, too late again !

you should eat fish.

fish is safe, but dont buy the tut that passes for fish in the shops, get yerself a cheap rod, and head off to the coast when the mackral are around in the late spring to autumn, chuck on some feathers and ake a carrier bag full home, no more, they're awesome bbq'd !

most important, catch it yourself, will never taste better or fresher !

...but we are told in the news media that they have discovered high levels of mercury in a lot of the fish we eat Hugh....

... think I'll stick to Subway

according to the daily sport they have found fish on the planet mercury and elvis on the moon, think i'll disapear up my own uranis

I agree with Phill and Peter on this.
There's enough very real problems for us to worry about already, just keep and eye on the situation and act accordingly.
A few years ago we had the meningitis epidemic with many young people dying in Britain alone.

Steve

Yeah thanks guys, I'll just away and hide myself away in fear. Probably far better than thinking about a potential problem anyway. Obviously far better than having a discussion about it. But probably not as effective as pretending it doesn't exist, eh?
Interesting how the majority appear to be thinking though.

Cheers.

Catching Wild boar and Angus beef is much more fun Hugh, and it tastes just as fresh!!

I don't think that many people are just ignoring the problem and hoping it'll go away, it's just that we can't do a whole lot to change things, birds will land in your garden whatever you do, they (oh i swore !) on you as they fly by , usually from on high and yes you can avoid eating chicken etc but if you cook it well enough then it's no problem anyway.
From what I was told it's mainly people that are dealing with live or newly dead birds that are at risk as the virus doesn't live for long in a dead host.

You obviously have the room to grow your own food, that's a good thing to do anyway without these sort of problems but many of us don't have that luxury so it's not an option for us.
Living in a remote rural situation will help anyway as it'll mean less interaction with potential carriers but it also means that your immune system isn't as well developed.

So in short we all do what seems right for our own situations.

Please don't take this as criticism of your view, you have probably heard a more informed view than we have and you're acting accordingly. We're acting accordingly to our own circumstances.

Steve

Roger that Steve.

Hey everyone,

I was reading though this thread and the first thing that came to mind was the Y2K bug, and all the fuss about the computers going to cause the end of the world.

It's very easy to get caught up in such a situation, and I must say that to my shame I really did think that there were going to be lots of problems, I wasn't thinking end of the world, but I was thinking economic problems, caused by system problems for a week or so into Y2K. And a large percentage of the people in computing at the time thought the same thing, and we were all wrong.

I think that there is every possibility that this bird flu thing could go the same way, mostly because the media are dumbing down the story so much to get good interested from "the people" that we don't get the right information. There are two separate problems.

1) Bird flu - Strain H5N1
This is what has been killing people, and lots of birds. It is very hard to catch, the people that have caught it so far are generally people who work with live birds, generally believed to be caught via desecrated bird feces in the air in the form of dust, or some other similar direct contact vector. 99.9% of the population of the developed world has little or no contact with live birds directly and so stands almost no chance of catching this virus.

2) Pandemic - Not currently in existence (as far as is currently known!)
This is what all the panic is about, and it's not the same thing as Bird Flu. The fear is that the virus could mutate into a virus that can be spread directly from human to human. There is one or two things that don't get mentioned in the news speculation about this tho. First up the bad news, if it's mutated it's no longer H5N1 so any "treatment" for H5N1 is probably useless against it. So all this stocking up is pointless, unless of course by some chance it mutates into something that's not immune to what we're stocking up on (anything is possible!) of something else we have available. Second the good news, if it's mutated it's no longer H5N1. Yes OK so that's the same as the bad news, but if it's mutated to be something else it could change a number of other things, as well as the ability to move between humans. For a start, the most obvious thing is that it might not be as deadly, and also since it's now a human virus (or is more like one as it's mutated to accommodate our biology) there's no reason to assume that it won't be more like other human infections, and possibly more attack-able by our immune system.

Bear in mind that I'm no virologist, but I've learnt from falling into the trap of believing what I'm told by either the media or the governments, and I've done a little digging into what people who really know about these things are saying, and based my opinions on the middle ground of what's being said.

In summation, Yes there could be some trouble ahead, but odds are good that we'll all get thought it unscathed one way or another, so it's not worth taking to the hills just yet, but as always just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!

yeah, phill, invest, invest , invest.....

sink your $$ into rubber glove companies........

I think the biggest concern is the fact that there is no cure. That's what I think all the hub-bub is about, especially since it's migration season. I expect alot more bad news before good unfortunately.....

oh, hey by the way, im kind of new to this forum, so hello out there world, AND i seem to be having a problem posting an image. I follow z rules, have the right size (pixel image), save it as a rgb .jpg and it keeps giving me errors.......

anybody hep me......

thanks before hand

bentley

Hi mate, post you 'hello' in the 'say hello' forum for everyone to see.

send your photo to Rob at admin@uksignboards.com and he'll do it for you.

cheers, and welcome to the site

Bird flu ?- what bird flu ? - that was sooo last week. It's all forgotten about now. Seems it was all a big fuss about nothing. The infected swan came from Germany and was washed ashore by the tide. so no need to worry.

That's alright then